Consider Augustine's justification of when war is permissable and write a response to it. Do you agree? disagree? Explain why. Is he realistic in his assessment of humanity? What are the points that make sense to you? What does not? Please post a response by Thursday, January 31.
In Contra Faustum, Book XXII, Augustine discusses times during which war is permissible or “allowed” so to speak. Essentially, he specifically identifies two main circumstances including the fighting “undertaken in obedience to God…” (Augustine) and secondly that “the monarch should have the power of undertaking war if he thinks it advisable” (Augustine). With regards to war starting due to religious aspects, Mohammed’s “Call for Jihad” can be connected with Augustine’s first reasoning for war. This is because, like in the “Call for Jihad”, people should act to protect their faith if they believe that people are “harming the eternal well-being of God” (Augustine). In The Call for Jihad Muhammad felt as if his banishment from the city of Mecca went directly against the Muslim faith therefore he pledged war on the transgressors who exiled him from the Holy City. Secondly, Augustine reasons that a monarch has the ability to undertake war if they see fit to do so. This not to be interpreted broadly however because Augustine goes on to say that a monarch may engage in war only “for the natural order which seeks the peace of mankind” (Augustine). Essentially, war is only to be used to maintain peace. Although this may sound like a double standard, when given thought, it makes sense. In terms of my personal opinion I agree with Augustine’s two points and I also think that there should be a third. The third justification that I think is needed is that if a war- type action is taken against one nation, that nation is then allowed to either protect itself or retaliate.
ReplyDeleteAs far as whether or not Augustine is realistic, I personally would say that he is. I believe this because he understands that not all men have a “love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust of power.” Instead, Augustine looks upon these traits as reasons why “good men undertake war” because they find themselves in a position that “right conduct requires them to act” (Augustine). Augustine realizes that men do not engage in war simply for pleasure but rather to continue the peace and safety of their nations and communities no matter how large or small. Therefore, these points make perfect sense to me in that they are all realistic and logical reasons as to why a man fights a war.
--Nick Palumbo
Dear Nicholas,
DeleteAlthough you do make some valid points in your response, I feel as though your explanation of why Augustine is a realist is unclear and you should consider reanalyzing the first paragraph on “Contra Faustum.” Also, I believe you fail to mention how important God is in Augustine’s perspective on war.
When Augustine talks of “love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust for power,” I believe that he is saying not that it isn’t present in all men, but that it truly is the reason some men go to war. And so this negates your point that “Augustine realizes men do not engage in war simply for pleasure.” I believe Augustine is saying that some men do wage war for the aforementioned reasons. When “good men undertake war,” it is in response to the people waging war for things such as lust for power. Therefore, when you mentioned a need for a third justification for war, it really isn’t necessary because it is already included in Augustine’s explanation. When the “good men undertake war,” they so for self-preservation against those who wage war for, once again, the, “love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust for power,” and so your third justification would just be redundant if Augustine mentions it specifically.
Important to Augustine’s justification of war is God. Augustine states that, “When war is undertaken in obedience to God, who would rebuke, or humble, or crush the pride of man, it must be allowed to be a righteous war.” Basically what he’s saying here is that war is justified if declared under the name of God. If war is declared under the name of God, then it is considered a “righteous war,” and therefore justified. So in fact, God’s role in the justification of war is much more important than you made it out to be. You also mention that, “people should act to protect their faith if they believe that people are ‘harming the eternal well-being of God.’ However, if you had given the a little more text, you would see that Augustine says that, “even the wars which arise from human passion cannot harm the eternal well-being of God.” Therefore, people cannot justify war as a means to protect God’s well-being because men can not harm God.
You make a valiant effort and I commend you for that Nicholas, but be sure to analyze the whole text next time.
<3 u Yip
Dear Chrisvan,
DeleteYou may have won the battle but you shall surely lose the war. In addition, please inform me of the date that you and Mr. Yip are to be married.
Thanks,
Nick
Augustine has very different views than most. He believes that when human nature is taken to the next extreme and people are in danger that is when war is understandable. He thinks that it is our job to keep everything running smoothly. When there is an issue with how people are being treated or treating that is when he believes it’s ok for someone to step in. when problems arise we are not do just watch but to step in and support what is right and help the people who need it. I agree with the fact when people are the innocent to what is happening around them that they should be helped. War is necessary to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Sometimes it is the only way to get through to those people who see themselves as the worst parts of human nature. I believe he is a realist, he understands that some people will be genuinely bad and that those are the ones who will be starting wars. People need to learn if they already don’t know how to react to a situation. I would not suggest war for everything but sometimes it is a means that needs to be used.
ReplyDelete-Pamela Whatley
Augustine has a view on war that says the monarch can initiate war, if he feels it is advisable. Augustine is saying that in war there are emotions which cause the war such as in the first like "...love and violence, revengeful cruelty.." everyone who fights in the war has to love their country and will do whatever for the cause.
ReplyDelete-Connor Lanoie
Augustine has a few justifications for war. He believes that if people are being treated inhumane then you step in and help. I agree with this, if people's human rights are being taken away and being treated unfairly then they should be stopped. Every human should have their own rights and they should not be thrown away. I agree with Pam, He is a realist because he knows that not all people are good and they have to be stopped. There are allways going to be those people that go against everyone and believe that their only purpose his to hurt and bring people down.
ReplyDeleteTommy Janicki
While Augustine's points do make much sense I do not agree with him fully. When he states that”The real evils in war are love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust of power” (Augustine) he is correct. The evils in war do stem from those things. However, when he goes on to talk about how war is understandable when you are helping others I disagree. I think that you should worry about your own problems before you engage in war to help others.
ReplyDelete-Gilisa Paternina
In Augustine's Contra Faustum, he explains when he thinks war is an acceptable act. "...the soldiers should perform their military duties in behalf of the peace and safety of the community"(Augustine). I agree very much with the idea that a country must do anything it has to to keep the people in the community safe. I also agree with Nick when he says that "war is only to be used to maintain peace". War should only be fought when a country feels that it is necessary to keep it's people safe or they were attacked on their land. I do agree with some of Augustine's ideas in Contra Faustum.
ReplyDeleteSome of Augustine's points in Contra Faustum make logical sense while others do not. Augustine is realistic when he states that "The real evils in war are love of violence, revengeful cruelty,... lust for power,and such like". Without all these vices war might not exist. Like Clauswitz says "War therefore is an act of violence to compel our opponent to fulfill our will" Augustine states that the main reason for war is that people are greedy and have a "...lust for power...". On the other hand Augustine also states how war is necessary at some points. He says it is okay if it is on the "...behalf of the peace and safety of the community". This is why Augustine's points make logical and realistic sense to me.
ReplyDelete-Colin Krohto
Augustine believes that that war is necessary to protect the citizens. ”…the monarch should have the power of undertaking war if he thinks it advisable…” I would certainly agree with this because protecting the citizens is one of the duties of the people in power. There is also the belief that war is permissible when there is a group in charge abusing its powers. “The real evils in war are love of violence… wild resistance, and the lust of power…and it is generally to punish these things, when force is required to inflict the punishment” Augustine is saying that war can be used to stop the abuse of power of another government but in doing so, the attacking power becomes just as evil. Augustine is a realist because he understands that war is sometimes necessary to stop evil.
ReplyDelete-Ian Borzain
In Augustine’s Book XXII of Contra Faustum, he discusses the necessary circumstances and causes for a war to be considered ‘just’. I believe that it is important to consider whom Saint Augustine was (the Bishop of Hippo and a notable and extremely influential Christian philosopher during the holy Roman Empire) when reading this document. I find it slightly odd that he is promoting warfare when Jesus preached from an particularly nonviolent and pacifist viewpoint; “You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also” (Matthew 5:38-39). I agree with Augustine when he discusses the real evils of war: the love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce hostility and hatred, resistance, lust of power. I believe that his views on some of the reasons why men go to war and different human emotions in relation to war are accurate and represent a realist viewpoint.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I personally do not agree with Augustine’s views regarding the right conduct of human affairs. “…Requires them to act, or to make others act in this way…the monarch should have the power of undertaking war… and that the soldiers should preform their military duties... When war is undertaken in obedience to God, who would rebuke?” The power to declare war for the peace and safety of mankind and the community should not be given to the monarchs. One person should not be able to declare war and call together a multitude of individuals to risk their lives to fight in a war for ‘God’. I believe that declaring a war for God is not justified especially if men cannot cause any harm to God (“Wars which arise from human passion cannot harm the eternal well-being of God.”) Soldiers’ spirits will not be chastised when ‘bearing fatherly correction’ nor will they be ‘benefited rather than injured’ when performing their military duties for a God-fearing monarch. This viewpoint is representative the Just-War theory (wars should only be fought when it is necessary to defend God) and shows some idealist characteristics (this is impossible).
- Jillian
I would have to agree with Augustine's assessment of when war is justified. I would also say his view on humanity is fairly accurate. When Augustine states, "The real evils in war are love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust of power, and such like," I would have to agree with his statement. His assessment of what causes war and his perception of what causes man to go to war is quite accurate. One important part of this exerpt that Augustine brings up is how, "A great deal depends on the causes for which men undertake wars, and on the authority they have for doing so; for the natural order which seeks the peace of mankind, ordains that the monarch should have the power of undertaking war if he thinks it advisable, and that the soldiers should perform their military duties in behalf of the peace and safety of the community." What Augustine is saying is that when going to war, a huge part of it depends on the reasoning behind starting the war in the first place. Also, he makes sure to acknowledge how the leader should only declare war when it is in their favor. One of the most important parts of Augustine's justification of war is how the soldiers perform their military duties on the behalf of keeping the safety of the community. I find this to be a very important of this excerpt, because Augustine recognizes parts that are in the "Just War" theory of today, the idea of how one justification of going to war is to uphold the safety of the community. Overall, Augustine's perception of the justifications of war and his views on mankind in generally is quite accurate, and some of his views are still relevant today, as seen in the just war theory.
ReplyDeleteNick De Gennaro